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alt_lupin at 12:35pm on 04/09/2012
alt_lupin at 12:35pm on 04/09/2012MEETING MINUTES
Order of the Phoenix
Date: 3 September 1995
Location: 12 Grimmauld
Members Present: Molly, Arthur, Bill, Frank, Steve, Emmeline, Benjy, Dorcas, Caradoc, Kingsley, Sirius, Dora, and yours truly.
Members Absent: The rest of you.
Guests: Not Ridley, apparently!
REVIEW OF PREVIOUS MEETING MINUTES:
Apparently they were approved, as everyone seemed to expect that I'd be taking the notes this time, judging from the enthusiasm with which parchment and pen were thrust upon me.
TREASURER'S REPORT:
We're apparently down one (1) wand.
AGENDA:
The main agenda item was to review security procedures. Additional agenda items involved second-guessing prior security procedures, complaining about security procedures, anguishing over the ethical implications of ongoing security procedures, and complaining about Albus Dumbledoredumping Ridley on us leaving Ridley with us in the first place.
AGENDA ITEM 1: RIDLEY
On the up side, she's no longer our problem and we have the names of twenty-five of her camp contacts. Dora volunteered to cautiously make contact with these people, since she can change her appearance without using polyjuice.
(There was some concern about whether we can trust Ridley's allies any more than we could trust Ridley. Apparently she suggested that these contacts might be useful for 'your lot's sort of low-value operations,' I gather that was a direct quote. The consensus opinion was that Dora should be careful. I'm sure Dora found that exceedingly helpful and will take it into due consideration when she plans her camp visits.)
On the down side, Ridley took one of our wands with her, we had to burn a safe house, and poor Frank had to wash his hair.
AGENDA ITEM 2: SECURITY PROCEDURES
We spent some time discussing whether we could have improved the outcome here. (Note: there was no consensus on whether still having Ridley as a prisoner would be an IMPROVED outcome.)
I asked why, precisely, she had access to a pepper pot in the first place (and at breakfast?) Emmeline said that Ridley liked pepper on her eggs, and they'd been told to TRY TO WIN HER OVER WITH KINDNESS. (I should note that Emmeline was deeply embarrassed at how things went the other morning, and that if Rudy is tempted to pick up his journal to snipe, he should kindly put it back down, as anything he's likely to say, she's already thought.)
Sirius armchair-Seekered several details from the standoff he thought they could have solved more creatively. Kingsley admitted they hadn't exactly covered themselves in glory and that Sirius was right. This kicked off fifteen minutes ofarguing and sniping spirited debate about whether or not we were all losing our edge and need to start thinking seriously about a programme of retraining, or whether we were all just exhausted from being too much on edge and need a tropical beach and coconut shells with drinks and little paper umbrellas in. Consensus not achieved, discussion shelved when yours truly pointed out we could be at it all night.
Benjy morosely said that we should have gone with suggestion Sirius and Frank made months ago -- put her in a full body-bind and dragged her to France back at the summer solstice. On the other hand, she might well have worked out what this implied about the wards and returned in December, and we'd have less to show for it. Though at least she'd have had to come up with her own wand instead of making off with one of ours.
Also, in June, Albus Dumbledore seemed quite confident we'd eventually win her over with kindness and respect. If you'd like to take a moment to defend that position Albus, WE'RE ALL EARS.
AGENDA ITEM 3: MILLAND
Benjy further noted that keeping Ridley locked in a dungeon for a year with no one but Severus for company would have been unlikely to win her support, which naturally enough brought up Milland, who is presently locked in a dungeon (or 'suite of secure subterranean rooms,' as someone put it) at Hogwarts. Arthur agreed emphatically that this issue needed to be discussed and hopefully resolved with a solution that did not involve keeping Milland a prisoner permanently.
Sirius noted that Poppy and Pomona (neither of whom were present; it turns out the very beginning of September is not an optimal time to hold an Order meeting from the perspective of those who work at Hogwarts) expressed concerns when he saw them in August both about the conditions under which Milland is being held, the fact that we appear to be holding him prisoner indefinitely, and the fact that Severus is using up a great deal of polyjuice impersonating him and the ingredients are not available in limitless supply.
Severus did successfully capture and confine Milland when he was caught spying, and has used his position at Hogwarts to provide occlumency lessons to Hermione, Neville, and Harry. The possibility that lessons could be provided in a way that didn't require continuous polyjuice use and maintaining a prisoner indefinitely was raised, several ideas were discussed, and then that particular discussion was shelved as we decided we needed the input from the various Order members who are actually at Hogwarts.
Caradoc suggested we Obliviate Milland and release him -- this is problematic for a number of reasons. He changed the suggestion to Obliviating Milland and releasing him in France.
Emmeline muttered that she hopes Milland doesn't take pepper with his breakfast eggs; Frank said that no one, least of all Severus, was trying to befriend Milland and win his trust and that probably makes things a bit easier. This was all speculation, however, as Severus, like the rest of the Hogwarts Order members, had other obligations yesterday morning. We moved on.
AGENDA ITEM 4: DOLOHOV
The discussion of unpleasant realities at Hogwarts that we're unable to do much about led rather naturally to Antonin Dolohov and the now-mandatory Dark Arts class. There was a great deal of sympathy to the Weasleys and Longbottoms, and we moved on to whether there was any practical advice we could offer the Juniors -- who were sufficiently shaken up by the activities at their Jolly Junior Fascists Summer Camp where they spent their summer holidays that several have been asking for some ethical guidance.
Of course, 'Just tell them you won't do it' is impractical and dangerous. Moreover, Arthur noted that they're acquiring a large set of thoroughly useful skills at Jolly Junior Fascists Summer Camp -- skills that might be quite a bit of use to the Order, later on, and can we afford to have our future likely allies pass those up? (This is a less compelling argument when it comes to Dolohov's class, but that's also not even technically optional.)
Frank is recommending to Neville and Evelyn that they go for the theoretical section rather than the practical (and take him at face value that some people Just Aren't Suited to Dark Arts and be those people). Sirius noted that the theory class could be every bit as ethically damaging -- that learning to justify and rationalise the Dark Arts is only a marginal improvement over learning to practice them.
Frank also mentioned that Alice thinks those who can afford to should 'fail' the Dark Arts class. Others will have to skate a middle ground. But for Merlin's sake, don't trust Dolohov -- not even when he sounds perfectly reasonable.
ADJOURNMENT
We'd planned to discuss Minerva's large crop of babies, but after that discussion everyone badly wanted a drink. Molly and Arthur headed home; everyone else decided to convene a meeting of the Order Subcommittee for Beer Testing and headed off to the beer garden to test as much beer as possible. Whether some of those pints of beer included little paper umbrellas I will leave to your imagination.
Order of the Phoenix
Date: 3 September 1995
Location: 12 Grimmauld
Members Present: Molly, Arthur, Bill, Frank, Steve, Emmeline, Benjy, Dorcas, Caradoc, Kingsley, Sirius, Dora, and yours truly.
Members Absent: The rest of you.
Guests: Not Ridley, apparently!
REVIEW OF PREVIOUS MEETING MINUTES:
Apparently they were approved, as everyone seemed to expect that I'd be taking the notes this time, judging from the enthusiasm with which parchment and pen were thrust upon me.
TREASURER'S REPORT:
We're apparently down one (1) wand.
AGENDA:
The main agenda item was to review security procedures. Additional agenda items involved second-guessing prior security procedures, complaining about security procedures, anguishing over the ethical implications of ongoing security procedures, and complaining about Albus Dumbledore
AGENDA ITEM 1: RIDLEY
On the up side, she's no longer our problem and we have the names of twenty-five of her camp contacts. Dora volunteered to cautiously make contact with these people, since she can change her appearance without using polyjuice.
(There was some concern about whether we can trust Ridley's allies any more than we could trust Ridley. Apparently she suggested that these contacts might be useful for 'your lot's sort of low-value operations,' I gather that was a direct quote. The consensus opinion was that Dora should be careful. I'm sure Dora found that exceedingly helpful and will take it into due consideration when she plans her camp visits.)
On the down side, Ridley took one of our wands with her, we had to burn a safe house, and poor Frank had to wash his hair.
AGENDA ITEM 2: SECURITY PROCEDURES
We spent some time discussing whether we could have improved the outcome here. (Note: there was no consensus on whether still having Ridley as a prisoner would be an IMPROVED outcome.)
I asked why, precisely, she had access to a pepper pot in the first place (and at breakfast?) Emmeline said that Ridley liked pepper on her eggs, and they'd been told to TRY TO WIN HER OVER WITH KINDNESS. (I should note that Emmeline was deeply embarrassed at how things went the other morning, and that if Rudy is tempted to pick up his journal to snipe, he should kindly put it back down, as anything he's likely to say, she's already thought.)
Sirius armchair-Seekered several details from the standoff he thought they could have solved more creatively. Kingsley admitted they hadn't exactly covered themselves in glory and that Sirius was right. This kicked off fifteen minutes of
Benjy morosely said that we should have gone with suggestion Sirius and Frank made months ago -- put her in a full body-bind and dragged her to France back at the summer solstice. On the other hand, she might well have worked out what this implied about the wards and returned in December, and we'd have less to show for it. Though at least she'd have had to come up with her own wand instead of making off with one of ours.
Also, in June, Albus Dumbledore seemed quite confident we'd eventually win her over with kindness and respect. If you'd like to take a moment to defend that position Albus, WE'RE ALL EARS.
AGENDA ITEM 3: MILLAND
Benjy further noted that keeping Ridley locked in a dungeon for a year with no one but Severus for company would have been unlikely to win her support, which naturally enough brought up Milland, who is presently locked in a dungeon (or 'suite of secure subterranean rooms,' as someone put it) at Hogwarts. Arthur agreed emphatically that this issue needed to be discussed and hopefully resolved with a solution that did not involve keeping Milland a prisoner permanently.
Sirius noted that Poppy and Pomona (neither of whom were present; it turns out the very beginning of September is not an optimal time to hold an Order meeting from the perspective of those who work at Hogwarts) expressed concerns when he saw them in August both about the conditions under which Milland is being held, the fact that we appear to be holding him prisoner indefinitely, and the fact that Severus is using up a great deal of polyjuice impersonating him and the ingredients are not available in limitless supply.
Severus did successfully capture and confine Milland when he was caught spying, and has used his position at Hogwarts to provide occlumency lessons to Hermione, Neville, and Harry. The possibility that lessons could be provided in a way that didn't require continuous polyjuice use and maintaining a prisoner indefinitely was raised, several ideas were discussed, and then that particular discussion was shelved as we decided we needed the input from the various Order members who are actually at Hogwarts.
Caradoc suggested we Obliviate Milland and release him -- this is problematic for a number of reasons. He changed the suggestion to Obliviating Milland and releasing him in France.
Emmeline muttered that she hopes Milland doesn't take pepper with his breakfast eggs; Frank said that no one, least of all Severus, was trying to befriend Milland and win his trust and that probably makes things a bit easier. This was all speculation, however, as Severus, like the rest of the Hogwarts Order members, had other obligations yesterday morning. We moved on.
AGENDA ITEM 4: DOLOHOV
The discussion of unpleasant realities at Hogwarts that we're unable to do much about led rather naturally to Antonin Dolohov and the now-mandatory Dark Arts class. There was a great deal of sympathy to the Weasleys and Longbottoms, and we moved on to whether there was any practical advice we could offer the Juniors -- who were sufficiently shaken up by the activities at their Jolly Junior Fascists Summer Camp where they spent their summer holidays that several have been asking for some ethical guidance.
Of course, 'Just tell them you won't do it' is impractical and dangerous. Moreover, Arthur noted that they're acquiring a large set of thoroughly useful skills at Jolly Junior Fascists Summer Camp -- skills that might be quite a bit of use to the Order, later on, and can we afford to have our future likely allies pass those up? (This is a less compelling argument when it comes to Dolohov's class, but that's also not even technically optional.)
Frank is recommending to Neville and Evelyn that they go for the theoretical section rather than the practical (and take him at face value that some people Just Aren't Suited to Dark Arts and be those people). Sirius noted that the theory class could be every bit as ethically damaging -- that learning to justify and rationalise the Dark Arts is only a marginal improvement over learning to practice them.
Frank also mentioned that Alice thinks those who can afford to should 'fail' the Dark Arts class. Others will have to skate a middle ground. But for Merlin's sake, don't trust Dolohov -- not even when he sounds perfectly reasonable.
ADJOURNMENT
We'd planned to discuss Minerva's large crop of babies, but after that discussion everyone badly wanted a drink. Molly and Arthur headed home; everyone else decided to convene a meeting of the Order Subcommittee for Beer Testing and headed off to the beer garden to test as much beer as possible. Whether some of those pints of beer included little paper umbrellas I will leave to your imagination.
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